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 Module file segmentation

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dalex
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PostSubject: Module file segmentation   Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:09 am

Hi everyone,

I was kind of annoyed at the utter chaos of the module system files, so I figured out a way to make it easier to locate what we want to use. We should segment them.

Let us use module_troops.py as an example. It would be much simpler to have the following files:

module_troops/santara.py
module_troops/nohseru.py
module_troops/melitine.py
module_troops/snakedominion.py

module_troops/bandits.py
module_troops/deserters.py
module_troops/adventurers.py

etc...

instead of one huge chaotic file. To achieve this, I've created a script (uploaded to the SVN) which can be added to build_module.bat before the targeted module file and functions in this manner:

reconstructModuleFile.py targetFile.py sourceFileX.py sourceFileY.py SourceFilez.py SourceFileEtc.py

(Ex:

reconstructModuleFile.py module_troops.py module_troops/santara.py module_troops/nohseru.py module_troops/melitine.py module_troops/snakedominion.py module_troops/bandits.py module_troops/deserters.py module_troops/adventurers.py

)

this function concatenates all of the input files into the target file, in the order specified, so as to preserve the hardcoded parts of the module files in proper order.

I figured we should segment, at least, module_troops and module_items, as it would make troop loadout and balancing a lot easier.

thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:28 am

That seems like overkill if you ask me. I know the module_troops file is big and little messy, but it shouldn't be all that chaotic. I have everything we need organized. close to the top I have the major faction troops and under them I have minor faction troops and then after that it breaks down into minor-minor factions and knighthoods. Everything is commented with long bars so to say ( ex. ############# Faction ##############) so it should be easy to find your way around.

here is the order the major faction troops are presented in the file, so you know to scroll up or down depending on what troops you're looking for.

1. snake dominion
2. santarta
3. melitine
4. nohseru
5. ashenborn

Also, troop trees are located at the bottom of the troop file. If we segment the files would be able to make sure troop trees end up in the right place when all the files are brought back together?
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:38 am

Hi Timaagh,

1. It's already programmed to add files in the order they're input, so, if you add troop_trees.py as the last argument, it'd add it as the last part of the file.

2. It's not really overkill, it's just organised. It'd take me about 15 minutes to segment everything and modify everything so it all works great.

3. I understand that the file is already formatted in a semi-linear fashion, but, doesn't it gall you to not be able to go "Oh, I want to add bandits in a way where everyone can see them, plain as day, and can compare them to other bandits easily, without being assaulted by mounds of other information which has no relation to what I am doing at the moment"? It seriously bothers me.

4. Being able to locate all of the cloth-based headgear in 5 seconds would be much simpler than looping find requests through module_items and hoping you got them all. If all of the chaotic, often-used files were segmented, it'd make our job a lot easier Wink.
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:02 am

I definitly agree with you on the items file. I've always hated having to look for items; I can never win with that one. I don't think the troops file is all that bad. I suggest we wait for some input from Treebeard before you start anything.

My main concern though is time, particularly with the items file. There are a lot of items and if you start to catagorize them you'll have to go through every item and make sure it goes into the right file. That would be a long and tedious process and is my only reason for opposing the segmenting. However, the troops file is alredy pretty catagorized and I don't think it would take long to properly segment that file.
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Also, remember that many constants have a start and an end for iterations (loops) that is based on the current structure. If segmentation is done, then it would be advisable that it restores the files in the same order (at least in the troops file).

So for troops it may be counter-productive to split up.
Items is a total mess though, so there it would be good to create more order.

That file would benefit from ordering and grouping based on a paper doll system. For faction items, an appropriate ItemID should be used with the faction's three significant letters as prefix).

HOWEVER, the first items at the top are not to be touched (only after where the comment says that it is ok to alter items, from that point and below can we group and sort).

Preferably by having someone organize that file so that it is structured with weapons that are categorized like Alex suggested (primarily grouped by weapon proficiency). There is a bit of order in Items already. It would be best to expand that existing order

Each category should be clearly commented with a comment heading. This is partly done in items already.

Grouping and sorting can be applied to line 254 and onward.

Grouping and order for ammo:
Arrows (weakest first)
Bolts (weakest first)

Grouping and order for horses:
Horses should be grouped by type (and ordered by weakest first).

Grouping and order for Weapons:
1-H weapons (shortest weapons at the top and then descending with longer weapons -- perhaps also grouped by cut, pierce, blunt)
2-H weapons (ordered and grouped like 1-H weapons)
Polearms (shortest first)
Bows (weakest first and then ascending)
Crossbows (weakest first and then ascending)
Thrown (shortest first)

Grouping and order for shields:
Input your suggestions here

Grouping and order for footwear armor:
Input your suggestions here

Grouping and order for body armor:
Input your suggestions here

Grouping and order for hand/arm armor:
Input your suggestions here

Grouping and order for head armor:
Input your suggestions here

Also, each itemID that is unclear/non-appropriate (such as rav_ as prefix) should be rewritten. An item called pl_204 is an example of an extremely badly formulated itemID. ItemID should be similar to the Display Name of the item.

Non-protective clothes should be grouped separately from armor but according to paper doll groups.


All commented out items can be deleted.

Benefits:
It will be easy to use ranges in the code when needing to select a group of weapons of a certain kind.
Easy to form an overview of the weapons in each category.
Less segmentation is needed (because it is easy to browse and find items and item groups when they are sorted and grouped properly). Segmenting if needed is also easier when re-patching back to the appropriate places in the full items.py file.
When inputting new items it easy easy to determine where in the file it should be located.
It will facilitate equiping troops and make it clearer what they are equipped with.

Weapon system speed and damage (thumb rules when modifying/transforming/creating):
Weapons that are longer and heavier have higher damage but slower speed.
(add more thumb rules here)


ATTENTION must be paid to module_constants (this file needs to be updated so it corresponds with the changes made to the items file):
Spoiler:
 


Last edited by treebeard on Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:53 pm

treebeard wrote:
Also, remember that many constants have a start and an end for iterations (loops) that is based on the current structure. If segmentation is done, then it would be advisable that it restores the files in the same order (at least in the troops file).

So for troops it may be counter-productive to split up.
Items is a total mess though, so there it would be good to create more order.

That file would benefit from ordering and grouping based on a paper doll system.

HOWEVER, the first items at the top are not to be touched (only after where the comment says that it is ok to alter items, from that point and below can we group and sort).

Either by having someone organize that file so that it is structured with weapons that are categorized like Alex suggested (primarily grouped by weapon proficiency).

Grouping and order for Weapons:
1-H weapons (shortest weapons at the top and then descending with longer weapons -- perhaps also grouped by cut, pierce, blunt)
2-H weapons (ordered and grouped like 1-H weapons)
Polearms (shortest first)
Bows (weakest first and then ascending)
Crossbows (weakest first and then ascending)
Thrown (shortest first)

Grouping and order for shields:
Input your suggestions here

Grouping and order for footwear armor:
Input your suggestions here

Grouping and order for body armor:
Input your suggestions here

Grouping and order for hand/arm armor:
Input your suggestions here

Grouping and order for head armor:
Input your suggestions here

Also, each itemID that is unclear/non-appropriate (such as rav_ as prefix) should be rewritten. An item called pl_204 is an example of an extremely badly formulated itemID. ItemID should be similar to the Display Name of the item.

Non-protective clothes should be grouped separately from armor but according to paper doll groups.

Horses should be grouped by type (weakest first).


Benefits:
It will be easy to use ranges in the code when needing to select a group of weapons of a certain kind.
Easy to form an overview of the weapons in each category.
No segmentation is needed (because it is easy to browse and find items and item groups when they are sorted and grouped properly)

Weapon system speed and damage (thumb rules):
Weapons that are longer and heavier have higher damage but slower speed.
(add more thumb rules here)

Hi TB,

1 - Files are reconstructed as per the original files, so, when they are build using build_module.bat, there would be no difference between the reconstructed files and the segmented files.

2 - The hardcoded files would be sent in first, meaning their order would not change. (E.g: Tutorial items, arena items, etc, I've already started segmenting the items file.)

The way I had been segmenting the items are as follow:
Quote :

common_weapons_swords_1h
common_weapons_swords_2h
common_weapons_polearms
common_weapons_bows
common_weapons_crossbows
common_weapons_thrown
common_weapons_axes_1h
common_weapons_axes_2h
common_weapons_maces_and_clubs_1h
common_weapons_maces_and_clubs_2h
::: continue with faction names replacing common_ prefix (e.g: nohseru_weapons_swords_1h) :::

common_armor_head
common_armor_body
common_armor_hands
common_armor_feet
common_armor_shields
::: continue with faction names replacing common_ prefix (E.g: nohseru_armor_head) :::

common_ammo
common_food
common_quest
common_trade_goods
common_books
common_horses
::: continue with faction names replacing replacing common_horses (E.g: santara_horses) :::

header_module_items (all hardcoded items in regular format here)


If we don't want to go with segmentation, I agree with TB concerning the restructuring of the items.py

The way I'm restructuring it (roughly) is as follows and is based on separating common items from faction items:
Quote :

# ####################################################################################################################################################################################################
# COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START -
# ####################################################################################################################################################################################################
# HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START - HORSES START
# ####################################################################################################################################################################################################
["sumpter_horse","Sumpter Horse", [("sumpter_horse",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_horse, 0, 160,abundance(90)|hit_points(110)|body_armor(17)|difficulty(1)|horse_speed(34)|horse_maneuver(33)|horse_charge(9),imodbits_horse_basic],
["saddle_horse","Saddle Horse", [("saddle_horse",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_horse, 0, 280,abundance(90)|body_armor(14)|difficulty(1)|horse_speed(39)|horse_maneuver(36)|horse_charge(Cool,imodbits_horse_basic],
["steppe_horse","Steppe Horse", [("steppe_horse",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_horse, 0, 230,abundance(80)|body_armor(15)|difficulty(2)|horse_speed(37)|horse_maneuver(41)|horse_charge(7),imodbits_horse_basic],
["courser","Courser", [("courser",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_horse, 0, 810,abundance(70)|body_armor(16)|difficulty(2)|horse_speed(43)|horse_maneuver(37)|horse_charge(11),imodbits_horse_basic|imodbit_champion],
["hunter","Hunter", [("hunting_horse",0),("hunting_horse",imodbits_horse_good)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_horse, 0, 870,abundance(60)|hit_points(130)|body_armor(29)|difficulty(3)|horse_speed(40)|horse_maneuver(36)|horse_charge(18),imodbits_horse_basic|imodbit_champion],
["warhorse","War Horse", [("warhorse_chain",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_horse, 0, 1810,abundance(50)|hit_points(135)|body_armor(52)|difficulty(4)|horse_speed(37)|horse_maneuver(34)|horse_charge(18)|horse_scale(110),imodbits_horse_basic|imodbit_champion],
["charger","Charger", [("charger_new",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_horse, 0, 1811,abundance(40)|hit_points(130)|body_armor(50)|difficulty(4)|horse_speed(39)|horse_maneuver(35)|horse_charge(23)|horse_scale(112),imodbits_horse_basic|imodbit_champion],

# ####################################################################################################################################################################################################
# COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START -
# ####################################################################################################################################################################################################
# BOLTS AND ARROWS START - BOLTS AND ARROWS START - BOLTS AND ARROWS START - BOLTS AND ARROWS START - BOLTS AND ARROWS START - BOLTS AND ARROWS START - BOLTS AND ARROWS START - BOLTS AND ARROWS START - BOLTS AND ARROWS START -
# ####################################################################################################################################################################################################
["arrows","Arrows", [("arrow",0),("flying_missile",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("quiver", ixmesh_carry)], itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise|itp_default_ammo, itcf_carry_quiver_back, 50,weight(3)|abundance(100)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(1,pierce)|max_ammo(40),imodbits_missile],
["barbed_arrows","Barbed Arrows", [("barbed_arrow",0),("flying_missile",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("quiver_d", ixmesh_carry)], itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise, itcf_carry_quiver_back_right, 100,weight(3)|abundance(70)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(2,pierce)|max_ammo(38),imodbits_missile],
["bodkin_arrows","Bodkin Arrows", [("piercing_arrow",0),("flying_missile",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("quiver_c", ixmesh_carry)], itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise, itcf_carry_quiver_back_right, 200,weight(3)|abundance(50)|weapon_length(91)|thrust_damage(3,pierce)|max_ammo(36),imodbits_missile],
["bolts","Bolts", [("bolt",0),("flying_missile",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("bolt_bag", ixmesh_carry),("bolt_bag_b", ixmesh_carry|imodbit_large_bag)], itp_type_bolts|itp_merchandise|itp_default_ammo|itp_can_penetrate_shield, itcf_carry_quiver_right_vertical, 64,weight(2.25)|abundance(90)|weapon_length(63)|thrust_damage(2,pierce)|max_ammo(30),imodbits_missile],
["steel_bolts","Steel Bolts", [("bolt",0),("flying_missile",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("bolt_bag_c", ixmesh_carry)], itp_type_bolts|itp_merchandise|itp_can_penetrate_shield, itcf_carry_quiver_right_vertical, 200,weight(2.5)|abundance(20)|weapon_length(63)|thrust_damage(5,pierce)|max_ammo(28),imodbits_missile],

# ####################################################################################################################################################################################################
# COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START - COMMON ITEMS START -
# ####################################################################################################################################################################################################
# HAND ARMOR START - HAND ARMOR START - HAND ARMOR START - HAND ARMOR START - HAND ARMOR START - HAND ARMOR START - HAND ARMOR START - HAND ARMOR START - HAND ARMOR START - HAND ARMOR START - HAND ARMOR START - HAND ARMOR START -
# ####################################################################################################################################################################################################
["leather_gloves","Leather Gloves", [("leather_gloves_L",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_hand_armor,0, 150, weight(0.25)|abundance(120)|body_armor(2)|difficulty(0),imodbits_cloth],
["mail_mittens","Mail Mittens", [("mail_mittens_L",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_hand_armor,0, 550, weight(0.5)|abundance(100)|body_armor(4)|difficulty(0),imodbits_armor],
["scale_gauntlets","Scale Gauntlets", [("scale_gauntlets_b_L",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_hand_armor,0, 910, weight(0.75)|abundance(100)|body_armor(5)|difficulty(0),imodbits_armor],
["lamellar_gauntlets","Lamellar Gauntlets", [("scale_gauntlets_a_L",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_hand_armor,0, 910, weight(0.75)|abundance(100)|body_armor(5)|difficulty(0),imodbits_armor],
["gauntlets","Gauntlets", [("gauntlets_L",0),("gauntlets_L",imodbit_reinforced)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_hand_armor,0, 1500, weight(1.0)|abundance(100)|body_armor(6)|difficulty(0),imodbits_armor],

I also agree with the horrendous item IDs. We need to replace the item IDs, and also, I believe, the mesh names, if they don't fit with their intended purpose.






Last edited by dalex on Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:57 pm

Well done. This structure is excellent for restructuring items.py. (The main problem with segmenting would be that there are many categories and one file for each category will yield too many files to be convenient for coders I think.)


Last edited by treebeard on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:06 pm

So, should I continue segmenting the files, or would you rather have them all defined in one huge file? I figured it'd be easier to structure them properly if the files are segmented.

For example:

common_armor_hands.py

###########################################################################################
# CLOTH ARMOR START - CLOTH ARMOR START - CLOTH ARMOR START - CLOTH ARMOR START
###########################################################################################
:::GENERICUSELESSGLOVES:::

###########################################################################################
# LEATHER ARMOR START - LEATHER ARMOR START - LEATHER ARMOR START - LEATHER ARMOR START
###########################################################################################
["leather_gloves","Leather Gloves", [("leather_gloves_L",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_hand_armor,0, 150, weight(0.25)|abundance(120)|body_armor(2)|difficulty(0),imodbits_cloth],


###########################################################################################
# MAIL ARMOR START - MAIL ARMOR START - MAIL ARMOR START - MAIL ARMOR START - MAIL ARMOR START
###########################################################################################
["mail_mittens","Mail Mittens", [("mail_mittens_L",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_hand_armor,0, 550, weight(0.5)|abundance(100)|body_armor(4)|difficulty(0),imodbits_armor],
["scale_gauntlets","Scale Gauntlets", [("scale_gauntlets_b_L",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_hand_armor,0, 910, weight(0.75)|abundance(100)|body_armor(5)|difficulty(0),imodbits_armor],

###########################################################################################
# PLATE ARMOR START - PLATE ARMOR START - PLATE ARMOR START - PLATE ARMOR START - PLATE ARMOR START
###########################################################################################
["lamellar_gauntlets","Lamellar Gauntlets", [("scale_gauntlets_a_L",0)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_hand_armor,0, 910, weight(0.75)|abundance(100)|body_armor(5)|difficulty(0),imodbits_armor],
["gauntlets","Gauntlets", [("gauntlets_L",0),("gauntlets_L",imodbit_reinforced)], itp_merchandise|itp_type_hand_armor,0, 1500, weight(1.0)|abundance(100)|body_armor(6)|difficulty(0),imodbits_armor],
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:09 pm

One file is better because 30 extra files will be equally hard to keep track of. It's easier to browse one big but well grouped and well ordered file.

Segmentation can be good though, but fewer segments in that case.
Like you did in the example above. We have segments for major groups. (E.g: one for all common armors [the whole paper doll], one for all common weapons, one for all faction armors, one for all faction weapons).
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:17 pm

Alright. So we want to restructure the file instead of segmenting it. I'll continue working on restructuring it, once I'm done, i'll upload it as module_items_new.py. Should be done before the end of the weekend.




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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:21 pm

dalex wrote:
Alright. So we want to restructure the file instead of segmenting it. I'll continue working on restructuring it, once I'm done, i'll upload it as module_items_new.py. Should be done before the end of the weekend.

Thanks for creating order in this important module. It is going to make everything a lot easier!

For existing faction Items ... should they be grouped and sorted them and then commented out ... or not commented out and then used as transformation candidates for the new faction troops?
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:42 am

Thanks dalex, that will be very helpful!

I think we should comment out the old faction items for now. I have an idea for some of them:

In the character creation menu the player chooses which faction united pendor. I was thinking that the player would be given armor that corresponds to the uniting faction.
I should probably put this in the war room.

then which ever ones we don't use can be overwritten.





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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:52 pm

Only semi related I know, but do we have the same 700odd item limit as vanilla Mount and Blade? I wasn't part of the Warband port so I don't know the limitations now.
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:13 pm

HI Mordred,

I'm not certain about the item limit but, if needed, I believe we can find a way to work around it.
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:08 pm

I uploaded the test version of the items file. Here is how it is formatted:

- Arena / tutorial items, do not modify order
- Readable books, do not modify order
- Reference books, do not modify order
- Trade goods, do not modify order
- Food, do not modify order
- Quest items
- Horses
--- Common
--- Faction 1
--- Faction ....
- Ammunition
--- Common
--- Faction 1
--- Faction ....
- Armor (Head)
--- Common
--- Faction 1
--- Faction ....

And so on and so forth. Go ahead and move items from Common into their respective faction headers, as I have not done so in most cases. I've been using the fac_kingdom flags to move them, but I am guessing we will be changing those.

In other news, if you are validating a troop's item distribution and encounter an item ID that does not match it's mesh name, or a mesh name which makes no sense, modify them before using them to reflect what they actually are.
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PostSubject: Re: Module file segmentation   Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:10 pm

I just wanted to add something here.

When adding new troops and items for POP4 I have been putting a p4_ in the ID so that we know that it was just added for POP4. I would like to keep this going so we don't lose track of what is new and what is old.
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